Curse

Livingston · Feb 23, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Point well taken. It's just a shame that things like a free character slot with a pre-release bonus pack (Nightfall), or a pre-order item (Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall), or the Gray Giant are seen as just fine, because, well, they're in someone's own region. But an item given as prize in a different region, even where the qualifier to get it is ever so much higher, is seen as unfair or preferential.

As far as I know, the miniatures are all tradeable. Is that not true? If it is true, then anyone, anywhere, can purchase one, if one is available and he/she can meet the price. That seems the very essence of supply and demand, free trade, and fairness.

It's funny because normally I would be in the boat of those who say these things don't do anything so quit complaining.

However, this situation has effected me directly.

Before, when mini-pets could only be taken out in mission, I thought they were a joke. Because if you are in a mission, a mini-pet is the last thing you should be thinking about. And my favorite mini-pet, the Kuunavang had that annoying flapping sound which made me what to give it away, let alone take it out (luckily I didn't).

One day I logged on, and lo and behold mini-pets were running all around town. I thought it was so cool and figured that I wouldn't mind collecting the mini-pets now.

People keep saying that mini-pets don't do anything. But that's just crap. If they didn't do anything some of them wouldn't be selling for 100k plus Ectos. The rollerbeetle wouldn't be on auction on this very board for 100k plus 120 ectos!

If this were true then there would be very few veterans still playing this game in PvE. Because it does not take very long to complete all the chapters, and getting max weapons and max armor along the way, even if you do so with every profession available, it still doesn't take that long.

The only things that keep most of us around are getting the extras. These are titles, armor, weapons, and now minis.

None of them technically do anything in the game. But that doesn't matter. What matters is that they do something for the player.

There is some reason that each player wants these things. This reason will vary greatly among different players but that reason is there. And that reason makes the players enjoy the game more.

THAT is what they do. They bring some sort of joy to the player who is looking at getting the item. The whole point to these games are to get some sort of enjoyment from them, and these things help to do that.

For some the joy from these items does indeed come simply from ego. They want to sit in the middle of town wearing their Obsidian armor and watching people gawk at their greased lightning mini (that they probably got because they happened to be in a guild organized enough to shut other players down and take turns getting into the top 100). These are the same people who don't like the fact that the Asian countries had easier access to mini that are now on the market 1000K due to jealousy.

But that's only one example and one reason. There are a ton of other reasons as well, some bad, others good. I would like to think that my reasons stem from the good side.

The reason that I don't like it is because I am a collector. That is where my enjoyment comes from.

See collecting is the key to all of this really. I'm rather surprised at Anet's seeming unawareness of this key concept, and can only put it down to seeing things from a creator's view point rather than from a player's.

Anet is comprised of geeks. That's a given. You have to be a geek to be in this field or you couldn't survive. Geeks are usually into the same sort of things (Comic books, Star Wars, Fantasy, Sci-Fi, etc), but the key to it all is that most geeks are collectors. That's why companies make so much money off of special editions, T-shirts, posters, figurines, special pins, etc.

Now the one thing that pisses off a collector more than anything is when they are collecting something and something new is added to the collection that is nearly impossible for them to get their hands on. Now if it's only one thing, that's fine. They can probably sell their house to get their hands on that Holy Grail item to complete their collection and they will feel justified because now their collection will also be fairly unique and they have shed blood (so to speak) for their art (collecting).

However, when you hear that there isn't just one thing, but half a dozen new things that are beyond your reach. It is no longer seen as a challenge, it simply rips out your heart and effectively destroys your collection.

This is what happened to me.

When I saw all these mini-pets running around it gave me the desire to collect them. I thought it would be a bit of a challenge to get a complete collection of minis, but it was a challenge I was willing to take.

So I went about getting all the mini's I could. I sapped all my character's money into one pot (I usually keep them separate), and I sold a heap of things that I felt I could part with.

I already had Kunnavang, Varesh, and the Gray Giant (even though I live in Australia I ordered the magazine internationally). After my spree ended I had all of the mini-pets except for the Burning Titan and the Bone Dragon. Or so I thought...

Around this time the event ended and I saw the Greased Lightning and I was in awe...

How cool was that. I was a bit disgruntled as I knew there would be very few of these available, and I had only missed the top 100 myself by 500 points. But I saw that they were being sold, so I hoped that by the time I could come up with the money, someone would still be willing to sell theirs.

Then I looked up minis on guildwiki and was subjected to the horror of finding all the Asian minis. My desire to collect the minis was then shattered to pieces, and I was left with a collection that won’t be completed (and thus to my eyes worthless), and drained of every last coin I had. I know I could sell them back, but most of them I bought on the high end so I’d probably still come out 100k down.

I have never really farmed so none of my characters have ever had much more than 100K at any given time. I knew that with perseverance that there was a chance that I could get the mini greased lightning. But it would take me years to come up with the money to get greased lightning, and all the Asian mini-pets as well, consider at least 3 of the ones I would need cost around 1 million gold.

I know this may not seem like a big obstacle to some who regularly farm with guildies and could easily make this kind of money in a month or less, but I wouldn't have the first clue how. Nor do I think it would be worth it to spend countless hours farming the same exact area to get the gold I need. That isn’t fun, that’s work.

Some say we got the Gray Giant. That's just a joke, because it wasn't that difficult to get even for someone in a country that doesn't get the magazine, and even if I couldn't you can easily hop in game and pick one up for 20K. The market is flooded with them.

And it is said that other countries don't have access to skill packs and additional player slots, I think that is even more wrong. And as they say two wrongs don't make a right.

To me it has nothing to do with what countries get what. I don’t care if all the Asian kids on the block are wearing gold Rolex’s and driving BMWs. It’s about availability. It has to do with wanting to complete my collection. I don't like the idea that 20 uber PVP players get special weapons (or minis) for tournaments. Sure I know they earned them and I respect their ability, but I'm not a PVP player, and from my point of view that has wiped any chances of me having a complete set of collector weapons (when tradable ones are awarded that is). And thus it saps my fun of collecting the weapons. If I can't have a whole set, I have no desire to collect them. And as I run out of desire to collect things, my desire to play goes with it, as there really isn't much else to do.

So for those of you who had the willpower to actually read all of this. That is how Asian mini-pandas directly affect my guild wars experience.

Livingston

Ferret · Feb 23, 2007, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I believe that the so-called Asian or Japanese Miniatures were prizes for winning a competition, and a very tough competition, to boot. They were not handed out like Easter candy to anyone who asked. (Do you guys fact check things, or just run with what someone else says as "truth?"

) Those miniatures are rare, and hard to come by, because they are the topmost prize for a Guild Wars PvP event.

So those items are rare, yes, rather like the rarity of those who earned a whole bunch of Wintergreen items or the Greased Lightning miniature. Funny, I don't see people complaining about the latter. Can it be a shadow of xenophobia colours this discussion?

I did check out the conditions for gaining the pets and the gold pets are fine in their rareity, it is the purple pets that are of concern.
One of the issues is that all regions should have had the same chance at an event to win the same pets and increase their number (and make prices more sensible).
This has nothing to do with xenophobia or jealousy, at least in my case, but fairness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Point well taken. It's just a shame that things like a free character slot with a pre-release bonus pack (Nightfall), or a pre-order item (Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall), or the Gray Giant are seen as just fine, because, well, they're in someone's own region. But an item given as prize in a different region, even where the qualifier to get it is ever so much higher, is seen as unfair or preferential.

In all my arguements, i have stated that all of these things should have been available to everyone, including Asian players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

[wiki]Miniature[/wiki]
The purples ones were additionally given out at netcafe drawings, which could be some cause for concern.

This is the prime cause of the problem. These were given out in free draws, and hence did not have to be earnt. I agree this is similar to the way the Grey Giant was free, but these pets dont even start to compare in both appearance and game economy effects.

The post above is also VERY good in pointing out the problem of mini-pets, my thanks to Livingston.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Anyway, as I said before, I have been told that my team will get some of those miniatures for prizes in the future, so all hope is not lost!

Well, assuming its 500 of each of the purple pets to be given out (as net promo), then i guess this will help balance the issue and reduce the cost of them, even if they do have to be won in a competition or event. Personally, i think they should be as part of a magazine promo (like Grey Giant) or be made into birthday presents so EVERYONE has an equal chance of one. Or, for a really revolutionery idea, how about making it possible to 'unlock' mini-pets with Faction. That would certainly make me start doing some PvP which i otherwise find fairly pointless.

scyfer · Feb 23, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

How cool was that. I was a bit disgruntled as I knew there would be very few of these available, and I had only missed the top 100 myself by 500 points.

I totally agree with your feelings about the asian miniatures - a few rare ones are one thing but 5+ inaccessible ones are quite a lot. Also: why are you not complaining about the 500 points? You're in the same boat as I am, and you know why? Because Anet's top 100 list had 40% duplicate names.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

the Greased Lightning miniature. Funny, I don't see people complaining about the latter. Can it be a shadow of xenophobia colours this discussion?

You don't? There are plenty of people complaining about it - some would have preferred a 100% fun event, some would have preferred these prizes to be given out via a system that was tested first and fair to all the competitors; etc. Surely the PvP ladder that rewarded Kanaxais to the Japanese was tested to make sure all competitor's efforts counted, and say, it was awarded to all members of the top team - not just randomly or to the leader?

Maybe the reason that people aren't complaining about Rollerbeetle Races giving out a rare prize is 1) precedence (rare minipets have already been given out in asia as a result of competitive events so it might be a relief to have similar events outside of asia) and 2) they are busy complaining about the way the prize system for New Years was handled.

edit: Nevermind the above then ^^ I guess Gaile did respond/address this - just in a completely hidden part of another thread. Heh.

Thanks.

masta_yoda · Feb 23, 2007, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

Korea has no exclusive minipets.

Europe and the US got the mini grey giant and divine aura which is far more common than the select few Japanese ones.

And Japan never gets favour, so the world is balanced

umm... actually they do..............black parades ..

(quote ferret)Well, assuming its 500 of each of the purple pets to be given out (as net promo), then i guess this will help balance the issue and reduce the cost of them, even if they do have to be won in a competition or event. Personally, i think they should be as part of a magazine promo (like Grey Giant) or be made into birthday presents so EVERYONE has an equal chance of one. Or, for a really revolutionery idea, how about making it possible to 'unlock' mini-pets with Faction. That would certainly make me start doing some PvP which i otherwise find fairly pointless. (quote ferret)

You can't reduce the cost of minepets there priceless and the public demands the price of them.

Ferret · Feb 23, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by masta_yoda

You can't reduce the cost of minepets there priceless and the public demands the price of them.

Actually you can. When the Grey Giant was only out in USA (before all the complaints), it was going for near 100k. As soon as there were loads of them, they dropped to 20k or less.
The more that are made available, the lower their value based on rarity will be. More pets available means lower price as sellers compete for buyers.

Livingston · Feb 23, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by scyfer

I totally agree with your feelings about the asian miniatures - a few rare ones are one thing but 5+ inaccessible ones are quite a lot. Also: why are you not complaining about the 500 points? You're in the same boat as I am, and you know why? Because Anet's top 100 list had 40% duplicate names.

Disgruntled means unhappy, so I was complaining about it a bit, which is why I added the quip about guilds in the race shutting other players out, which happened to me at least 10 times that I was aware of, and other times I found it impossible to hit top 100 because no matter how well I was doing, at some point I would always get knocked down by a player that was half a race behind me, but within radar range in places that over lap. I just don't like to complain about too many things in one post as that tends to askew the issue, making it more whiney than constructive, and my posts are way too long already.

I think it would have been better to make the top 100 based on something like number of times in first place or a score based on 1st-3rd place. That way every one would have been on the list only one time, and there would be a chance that you could overcome the schoolyard guild bullies throwing you over the fence.

Livingston

KamikazeChicken · Feb 23, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Gaile, don't try and pawn off the Asian minis as completely fair. >.> Anet has been giving Asian servers "special treatment," since the game was released.

Off the top of my head:
Special Minis
Better GW sites (American was only recently updated, but I think there were still complaints about lacking information)
Better Pre-order weapons for Prophecies.
Promotional Items
Etc.

Yes, GW's Asian sales suck ass, but that doesn't mean they should neglect the Euro/Am. servers. I'm well aware that this post isn't the least insightful, but it's too early to care.

The Herbalizer · Feb 23, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

[wiki]Miniature[/wiki]
Gold, green, and purple minipets were given as tournament/contest prizes. The purples ones were additionally given out at netcafe drawings, which could be some cause for concern. But whatever: most of this argument in this thread is "Somebody else has something that doesn't affect me but I can't ever get it, so I want it." I'm not worse off because I can't get that sexy spider shield from Taiwan.

And what all these jealous cry babies dont seem to realise is if the same number of Asian only mini pets were released to the Western players they will still be very very expensive. Only rich people will be able to afford them. I doubt mini pands, kanaxis etc will be 100k each more like 100k +100 ecto + Maybe Anet should just make them uber common so everyone can get one... Im sure Anet would do that as it would totally remove the reward the Asian players got from getting the mini pets.

Anet will not make the Asian only mini pets mass available so anyone can get one.

Jealously and socialism really are ftl.

myst1k · Feb 23, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

the thing that the complainers dont understand is gray giant ( special america/europe pet) is more common to anyone than those kanaxais and panda mini pets, means we shoudln't complain koreans and japanese should because only a few top players of them got the rare mini pets but not all. i think the favor of anet is on america/europe for having more affordable stuff, while only the elite korean/japanese players get the special items over there.

myst1k · Feb 23, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

one more thing, gaile plz tell anet not worry about this stuff and worry more about C4, PvP and adding new features like an auction house. i find Anet did pretty good job in 2k7 with all the events, new features. keep up the fantastic work!

Kakumei · Feb 23, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I don't have a problem with limited edition minipets--they're great prizes.

I just have a problem with Kanaxai being pretty much the rarest. Best-looking monster ingame, and it gets to be number one? I want one so bad.

atkafighter · Feb 23, 2007, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Plenty of people are complaining about the Greased Lightning, but we are here to talk about the regional pets. My sense is that people who love collecting/completing things have problems with this because thats just the way they are. I personally don't have much of a problem with it. I can live without a Naga, Panda or Kannaxi, but there are some weapon skins the Japanese got that are really great. Putting those in the store would be cool, or having the skins drop somewhere would be cool too.

lyra_song · Feb 23, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Maybe anet should do a American only promotion for an exclusive minipet.

I vote the Smite Crawler. Limited to 2500 through a random drawing.

then a European only promotion for Shiroken Warrior mini-pets. Limited to 5000.

milan · Feb 23, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Just to confirm. I started this thread with no interest on how rare the regional pets were, how much they cost or a demand that other regions get more special offer, I couldn't care less. I simply wanted to know why certain regions were getting considerably more 'perks' than other regions.

Gaile has gone a fair way to answering that question.

Ferret · Feb 23, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Maybe anet should do a American only promotion for an exclusive minipet.

I vote the Smite Crawler. Limited to 2500 through a random drawing.

then a European only promotion for Shiroken Warrior mini-pets. Limited to 5000.

This wouldnt really solve the issue and only go on to be totally unfair to Asian players, South American Players and African players, and no doubt many other countries. In fact, it would make it far worse.

The only fair way to do it would be to open up all the available mini's in some way to all regions by way of random drawings and competitions or other promo offers.

I still think that being able to unlock a mini on your account with Faction would be an interesting solution (even though it may take me ages as my faction is usually only around a few hundred points as i really dont care for PvP for the most part).

lyra_song · Feb 23, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferret

This wouldnt really solve the issue and only go on to be totally unfair to Asian players, South American Players and African players, and no doubt many other countries. In fact, it would make it far worse.

The only fair way to do it would be to open up all the available mini's in some way to all regions by way of random drawings and competitions or other promo offers.

I still think that being able to unlock a mini on your account with Faction would be an interesting solution (even though it may take me ages as my faction is usually only around a few hundred points as i really dont care for PvP for the most part).

Its only fair.

They have something you dont have.
You have something they dont have.
If thats not fair, i dont know what is. -.o

Oh wait.

Warriors have 80+ AL but they only have 2 pips of energy gain
Monks have divine favor but everyone wants to kill them.
Eles have the highest energy pool but they have exhaustion and slow cast times.

Wow...thats unfair -.o

Tiny Biscuit · Feb 23, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Its only fair.

They have something you dont have.
You have something they dont have.
If thats not fair, i dont know what is. -.o

1 vs 1 is fair.
1 vs 8 is unfair.

Sir Skullcrasher · Feb 23, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

How about no mini pets if we continue to complain about it?

milan · Feb 23, 2007, 08:31 PM // 20:31

no minipets for all works for me too.

Makkert · Feb 23, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

So for those of you who had the willpower to actually read all of this. That is how Asian mini-pandas directly affect my guild wars experience.

Livingston

...so....it's hard to get.... isn't that directly related to its status-symbol status?
If everyone would have one, it wouldn't be viewed as an item for 'veteran players' as you state, would it?

~ Makk.